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DRI: Refugee Stories x In Conversation With Nyamal Gatwich

Published

May, 2020

Preface: Nyamal Gatwech, born in South Sudan of the Nuer ethnic group, came to the United States in 1995 in search of a better life for herself and her two children. This is her story and the influence of the concept of "remote border control," coined by Political Scientist Aristide Zolberg in 1997 to describe the visa process at the borders of the world and the collaboration of countries to control migration patterns.

Note: In this interview, Nyamal sometimes calls South Sudan, Sudan. Although South Sudan had a referendum in 2011, many South Sudanese say Sudan even if they are referring to events that happened in modern-day South Sudan. Some events took place in modern-day North Sudan as well. This interview was translated into English to the best of our abilities in May 2020.

Interview Transcript:

Interviewer: Good to see you; thanks for taking the time out of your day to speak with me. How are you?

Nyamal Gatwitch(N.G): I'm doing well; like many, I stay indoors, away from the coronavirus. I'm not working, and the kids don't have school, so it's been a little loud and crazy in the house. I sometimes go for walks with my youngest daughter, which helps with the sadness that comes to me from staying all day indoors. How about you?

Interviewer: I'm doing well. I have lots of schoolwork to keep me busy, so I'm not too bored. But, on the other hand, I really miss the classroom setting; it's different. I also take walks around my neighborhood to stay positive.

N.G: (Nods head in agreement) Good, good that you are taking care of yourself.

Interviewer: Please tell me about your upbringing.

N.G: I was born in South Sudan and am of the Nuer ethnic group. I'm the oldest of 12 siblings. I grew up mainly in Sudan, but my family spent a little time in Ethiopia because my father studied as a doctor there before going to study in America.

Interviewer: What memories do you have growing up as a young girl in Sudan?

N.G: I had lots of fun as a young girl. My friends and I went for walks; we would do each other's hair, tend to the house, go to school, and talk with boys, everyday things young kids and teenagers do. There was a lot of focus on taking care of the house; my mother spent a lot of time with me, making sure I knew how to take care of my home for when I got married. Sudan was good

Interviewer: Things seemed to be going really well in South Sudan. What circumstances led to you coming to the United States.

N.G: I started dating a man my family disapproved of when I was 16. He was of a rival ethnic group, the Jiang(Dinka). My parents refused for us to see each other, but we refused, and soon I got pregnant. Once I was pregnant, my family let me go with him because that's what you do when you're pregnant; you cannot live with your parents. You now belong to your husband and his family. I was happy; he cared for me and respected my children and me; he was a good father and man, but a year after my son was born, a civil war broke out in 1991.

Interviewer: What did you do when the war broke out?

N.G: I had my son Marco on December 24th, 1990, and the war broke out in April… (ponders exact dates) no, May of 1991. The war happened around May. We left because the government at the time mainly consisted of Arab Muslims, who had conflicts in ideology with its southern neighbors. In government, religious ideology differences on how to run the country led to civil war. Many southerners were killed. Ethnic groups were also fighting each other, especially the Jiang and the Nuer, over cattle and land. My husband and I lived in Jiang territory because he was Jiang. Our lives were in danger because it was frowned upon to marry outside our ethnic group. If the Jiang caught us, I could have been killed, and if the Nuer caught us, he could have been killed. So, we decided to go to Kakuma, where we heard it was safe.

Interviewer: What was the process like leaving for Kakuma, Kenya? Did you and your husband travel alone? What did you take?

N.G: We didn't take much. Only what we could carry on our backs. We took one pot to use for cooking and as much food as we could carry. And the clothes on our backs. People were leaving for Kakuma every day. You would just join a group and travel with them. Day and night, people went for Kakuma as the war worsened.

Interviewer: How big was your group, whom did it consist of, and who were the people you knew in that group?

N.G: My group started out with about 25 people. It was me, my husband, and people from our village, mostly Jiang but some Nuer. I didn't know them well because they were from my husband's tribe. I didn't know my husband's language then, so I only had a few friends. Along the journey, we would pick up random people, mostly children, who were stolen by the rebel army to be child soldiers and could escape. These children became known as the lost boys of South Sudan.

Interviewer: What did the Sudanese government think of this?

N.G: Certain people in the government didn't want young men and boys to leave because they needed them to build their armies. This is why so many young boys were stolen from their mothers and became lost boys. The government placed land mines all over the path to Ethiopia because they wanted us dead if they couldn't keep us in the country.

Interviewer: How did you avoid the land mines?

N.G: Unfortunately, dead bodies and animals along the path showed us what parts to avoid. We primarily followed the beaten path of those fleeing ahead of us to find direction and reach the refugee camp.

Interviewer: What was the hardest part of the journey to Kakuma?

N.G: the hardest part was watching people die of hunger, bullet wounds, and sickness.

Interviewer: What did you guys eat on the journey? Were there shortages?

N.G: Quickly after leaving our home, we ran out of food. Everyone in the group was very generous. We helped each other when we could, but eventually, no one had food. Picking up extra people along the way was a burden because many of us only packed enough food for ourselves and our families, so having to feed extra mouths made it hard. Still, it was the right thing to do.

Interviewer: What happened when you ran out of food?

N.G: We used IV drips that the U.N. sent to the hospitals in Sudan. We packed them because we saw the U.N. give them to people in the hospitals when they were sick, dying, or thirsty. It was like a miracle drug that brought people to life.

Interviewer: Do you guys insert IV drips? What was this like? Did you guys have a doctor, nurse, or anyone knowledgeable in medicine among you?

N.G: No, we drank them, they gave many people a horrible stomach ache, but for the most part, they did the job and kept us hydrated. It was terrible.

Interviewer: How long was the journey to Kakuma, and did anyone help along the way?

N.G: The journey to Kakuma took two years, and we arrived at the camp by the end of 1992. we had to make a lot of stops because we ran out of food and were tired. Different ethnic groups were friendly to us and allowed us to stay with them. I met a nice woman from the Anuak tribe who let me live with her for 4 months. She taught me her language and wanted to adopt me as her daughter. When we decided to keep moving, she was so sad; she begged me to stay and promised to raise me as her own. As much as I loved her, I wanted to go to Kakuma with my husband.

Interviewer: That is cool that you learned her language.

N.G: Yes, I learned multiple languages going to Kakuma. Anuak, from the lady I lived with, and Arabic and Amharic from different people in my group. I speak English, but it's more complicated than the other languages I've learned.

Interviewer: Did any groups or people give you any trouble along the way?

N.G: Lucky for us, soon after we left, we ran into some members of the SPLMA (Sudanese People Liberation Movement Army). They offered to help, provided protection against rebel soldiers, and traveled to Ethiopia.

Interviewer: What happened in Ethiopia?

N.G: When we left Sudan, Mengistu (Mengistu Haile Mariam) was in power, and at the time, he embraced Sudanese people, so we thought it was a safe location to go to. Little did we know Ethiopia was in a political crisis, Mengistu fled, and the new government took power. The new government was Muslim and not welcoming of Christians. So when we arrived at the border of Ethiopia, we decided to rest under some trees. The following day, we were given a warning by the Ethiopian government to leave and go back to Sudan. We were not allowed to cross the border into Kenya, or we would be killed.

Interviewer: What did you do then?

N.G: The threat of being killed by the Ethiopian government meant nothing to us. We risked being killed if we went back, so it made no difference. We continued on our journey, and two days later, we stopped by a river called Pinyudo by the Ethiopian Kenyan border. We thought we were safe, so we decided to take a break. We relaxed and sat under the trees, and they opened fire on us. We were confused because we didn't know where the shots came from. We couldn't see until we looked up into the trees and saw dozens of Ethiopian soldiers shooting at us. (puts her head down. Long sigh and pause)
(Continues response) It was so bad, so many children dead, bodies floating in the water. The water from the river was usually a light muddy brown color now with streaks of red. My husband grabbed me, and I grabbed my son, and we swam across the river. The river was not very deep, but I'm surprised I made it with my son. To this day, my sons' eyes are gray in color, and I think it's because the water from that river, river poisoned his eyes. From there, we didn't have much trouble other than hunger and thirst, but we made it to Kakuma.

Interviewer: What was Kakuma like? Were there any people or organizations who helped people?

N.G: Kakuma was nice because many of us reunited with friends and family. The war was so bad almost all my childhood friends were there. You were not lonely in Kakuma, but Kakuma was very difficult. It was challenging. It rained a lot, and we slept on the ground under trees. Some made makeshift homes from the plastic sheets the Kenyan government gave us, but there was not enough food. When we got to the camp in 92, the U.N. had yet to arrive, so it was harder. It was the Kenyan government who helped us on their own. Manut Bol is the only one who helped us too.

Interviewer: How Did Manut Bol help? (Manut Bol was a famous South Sudanese-American basketball player)

N.G: He came to visit us from the U.S. and saw us suffering. He told the U.S. government, and they brought us food and water. He even built a well because water was the hardest thing to get. That saved us in Kakuma. Manut is a good man.

Interviewer: Were you allowed to go into the cities in Kenya, like could you go to Nairobi if you wanted to?

N.G: The Kenya government only allows you to go into the city if you are getting applications processed or doing an immigration interview. Or if you could prove you had family in the town.

Interviewer: What would happen to those who left Kakuma and went into the city?

N.G: They would be beaten by the authorities and sent back to Kakuma or jailed.

Interviewer: How was the visa process in Kakuma?

N.G: There were just one office processing papers for people looking to go to Europe and America. Too many people and only one office; it was ridiculous. This is why the process took so long. Many couldn't take the long processing time and decided to keep traveling to Ifo (Dadaab) refugee camp because there was more structure and more people processing visas.

Interviewer: Why did you stay in Kakuma and not go to Ifo if the process was faster?

N.G: It was 1993; I had just had my daughter, and my son had been sick for almost a year. I couldn't travel with a newborn and a sick child.

Interviewer: What was the visa application process like?

N.G: My father was living in Nairobi. I hadn't seen him in about four years. My cousin, who I found in the camp, went into the cities for a visa interview and saw him. She told him I was in Kakuma. He sent it to me and took me to the office handling the visa applications in the city. I got accepted relatively quickly, like six months after applying, but I had to wait another 6 months to learn English and for a plane ticket. I don't know how I got so lucky. Some people wait up to a year to hear anything back; others have yet to get approved. I finally left Kakuma in 1995.

Interviewer: You said your father was trained as a doctor in America. Do you think his connection to America helped in the process?

N.G: I don't think he had connections to anyone who could help me with the immigration process. But he helped me locate family in the U.S. willing to support me once I arrived. The fact that I wasn't going to be too dependent on the government made my application more appealing. Also, I applied as a single parent. My husband was educated and decided to return home to Sudan, where things had calmed down a little bit, and he was less hostile towards Dinkas. He promised to come a year after I left. So, again, being a single parent helped my application.

Interviewer: Did you know or learn any English before arriving in the U.S.?

N.G: I knew a little English, but as I got older, especially after picking up other languages on our journey, I only knew how to say hi and bye.


Interviewer: Was there any course provided to learn English?

N.G: I was required to do a four-month English course. The course taught basic English, like hello and goodbye. I also learned how to use money at the grocery store. They taught us that before you open the door in America, you have to look through the peephole, or you could be killed. They told us that if we got a car, we should not allow anyone we didn't know in our vehicle. They taught us how to use the stove, so we don't burn the house down and how to use the toilet even though we already knew how to use these things because we had them in our country.

Interviewer: Did you find this course useful once you arrived in America?

N.G: I did. Speaking with people and saying hello to my neighbors allowed me to not be lonely. But language is the most important thing. Knowing a language gives humans the ability to connect. I was fortunate for the little English that I knew.

Interviewer: What are some things you wished you had learned that the course did not teach you?

N.G: One exciting thing is they didn't really teach us how to use something in detail; for example, we learned how to go to the grocery store, but they didn't really tell us the difference between different foods or what aisle to get baby food, and what isle was the dog food. As a result, a lot of us end up buying bad things.

Interviewer: What do you mean by bad things?

N.G: For example, back home, we like to cook the left-over bones of the meat we prepare to make bone broth. Many of us ended up buying dog bones to prepare the bone broth. I only found out the bones were for dogs, not humans, when my caseworker came for a home visit and saw them in the freezer. You were lucky if you had a caseworker who took the time to show you these things.

N.G: Another example is that sometimes your caseworker will bring you things like lotion and toothpaste. Still, they need to tell you the exact function of each product. For example, I know people who used toothpaste as a lotion because they didn't realize it was for their teeth. We didn't use toothpaste. Back home, we used natural things from the earth as toothpaste and toothbrush. You didn't learn that toothpaste was not lotion until it started burning your skin. But you make mistakes, and you know.

Interviewer: What were you most excited about when you came to America?

N.G: I was most excited about the educational opportunity and being safe from violence.

Interviewer: Was there a community for you in the U.S.?

N.G: There was a small Sudanese community, but most of my family lived an hour away from the public housing I was given. I asked to live closer to family, but my host family said I couldn't afford to live in their area. So instead, my family members were sponsored by a wealthy Presbyterian church that rented them a condo in a beautiful part of Nashville, TN.

Interviewer: Did you get a chance to enroll in school?

N.G: Yes.

Interviewer: What was that like?

N.G: I did well in the English class in Kenya, but it was tough in America. I became discouraged because I was not learning as fast as I thought I would, but I kept going for myself and my kids.

Interviewer: How did you get to school? Did you have a car?

N.G: When we first arrived, there was a school very close to my house, so I would just walk, but then they made me transfer to a different school; it was far away from my home, and I had to ride the bus. The first time I rode the bus, I got lost. I didn't know that on the bus, you have to pull the string by the window for the bus to stop. So I decided to sit on the bus until I recognized my house. After a while, many people got off the bus, and I was the last one. I asked the bus driver why he didn't stop at my house, and he told me that I got on the wrong bus. He was a lovely black man. He took me back home and wrote me directions on how to ride the bus and which bus to get on to go to school and to come home. From the day I never got on the wrong bus, it's good when people help each other.

Interviewer: Yes, it's nice when people help each other. How was school? Were you able to finish?

N.G: No, I had to start working after my third child; it was just too much. I needed to work to give my kids a better life.

Interviewer: Where did you find your job, and where did you work?

N.G: I started working about two months after my six months grace period with my host family. I couldn't go to school anymore, and the money that the state was giving me was not enough. I got $700 from the state to pay my rent and phone bills. The rent was like $500, and because I called Africa often, my phone bill was around $200. I also needed more money to buy my kid's shoes so they could look nice. I got tired of buying them old shoes and clothes from Goodwill. Sometimes they would come home crying because other kids bullied them and made fun of them because they didn't have the nice clothes the other kids had. This made me feel shame because I didn't want to see my kids cry. After all, they don't have what other people have. This motivated me to work to provide a better life for my kids and me. Another reason I got a job is that I was tired of walking everywhere, and I wanted to buy a car. Carrying heavy groceries with two kids was hard.

Interviewer: Did you finally get the car? What was the process like?

N.G: (laughing) I laugh when I think about it now, but before I get my car, I would save my paychecks under my bed. Then, when I had enough money, like four paychecks, I called my brother, who lived 30 minutes away, to take me to a dealership. He was shocked when you came to my house to take me to the dealership because I had five paper paychecks saved. He told me, "do you not realize that after three months' paychecks expire, you could lose the money?"

Interviewer: So, you didn't cash the check or have a bank account?

N.G: (Laughing) yes, I didn't realize it; no one told me I needed a bank account. I would just cash a check whenever I needed it. I didn't know that money would expire. So, my brother took me to the bank, and I opened a bank account for the first time and got a car for the first time in one day.

Interviewer: How did that make you feel to have worked hard for something and been able to buy a car?

N.G: I felt good and motivated. I felt like my American dream was coming true. I learned that if you work hard in America, you will sometimes get good benefits.

Interviewer: You say "sometimes" what are times when you feel like you worked hard, but there were no benefits?

N.G: I sometimes say this because our time is up for older refugees or the first group of refugees to come to America. We work hard with our bodies, and unless our children are successful, we just waste our life working. Although free, we don't get benefits from graduating or making a lot of money; we depend on our kids. But to have the success that is personal for us older generation is tough. So many of us don't go to school and live our dreams. Our success comes from the success of our children, so it's hard.

Interviewer: You say your success depends on your children. How does this affect your relationship with your children?

N.G: Sometimes I wish I could do things by myself. I feel ashamed when I ask them for help, like translating or filling out a job application online. But my kids are good; they help me a lot. I am thankful; God blessed me. Unfortunately, I have a lot of friends whose children go down the wrong road. They don't listen and commit crimes; it's so bad (Shakes head… pauses).

Interviewer: Why do you think the kids of refugees in your community go down this road?

N.G: In America, the child's mother and father go to work in the morning, and at the same time, the child is at school. When the child is done with school, the mother and the father are also done with work. They spend time with the child, go to sporting events, and do homework with the child to eat dinner together. There is no time apart; the parents are involved and support the child. But as refugees, we have no education, so we work hard jobs, like an evening janitor or 2nd shift at a meat factory. When they come home, they are tired, and they sleep. There is no family time. The child feels neglected, but they don't realize their parents are working for them. This is a big problem where Sudanese parents and children need help understanding each other. There is no family, and the kids go and find family in the streets with bad people.

Interviewer: What can be done for refugees transitioning to another country, especially parents, to make for a better life?

N.G: Refugees like me at the time needed more help. We needed more resources and more money so that we could focus on school and raising our kids. In six months, I will not know English and not know how to survive in America. I don't understand why they expect this of us. But we are refugees, have gone through a lot, and are learning to adapt and survive. We always do.

Interviewer: I thank you for allowing me to speak with you to understand your story and the story of many who have had an experience like yours.

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